Talk:Compost

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Maw057. Peer reviewers: Maw057.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:13, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Pathogen Removal

This section is too short. I am thinking of adding more well-sourced information about how different components of compost are able to contribute to pathogen removal. Figrainfall (talk) 12:26, 11 April 2021 (UTC) 0 We have added more words to the pathogen removal section. I think we need to read through and fish for passive language.(talk)

Replacement Bokashi section

I have updated this page to align with the new Bokashi (horticulture) main article. Most of the old content is covered in the new and is relatively unimportant; some was just plain wrong; the single citation and the trademark "effective microorganisms" were commercials.

Having seen this in context I think that it should be moved from Compost#Other systems at a household level to Compost#Related technologies. Bokashi is also used above household level, and it is a different technology - using fermentation not decomposition - which puts it at odds with the definition at the start of Compost.

I also wonder whether it would be better to move the list of advantages into the main article, In favour, it might be thought heavy. Against, the comparison is notable knowledge for readers of the Compost page, who might not click across. Manofcarbon (talk) 20:01, 15 January 2019 (UTC) Malcolm

Support your good reasons to move Bokashi from Compost#Other systems at a household level to Compost#Related technologies and

Against moving the list of advantages of the Compost article to the main Bokashi article, it is good to have that comparative information on one page. -- Paleorthid (talk) 20:45, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

It is not the best place here to note this, but an opportunity, please: "the trademark "effective microorganisms" were commercials".
There are only two EXACT trademarks of this commercial product, (EM Effective Microorganisms, EFFECTIVE MICROORGANISMS); the exact correctly words and letters I can here remind not quite correct, please, sorry. And trademarks are just a mark as (in words and letters) REGISTERED.
(What I want to note to is: There is a commercial product, but it is a name - new - to what is already ever in the soil. Now can come a fight about, call it just organisms, microorganisms, ... NO. Sorry. Despite of there is a thing called Indigene Microorganisms also.)
This product (effective microorganisms) can be done homemade, with just some sorts of milk acidic bacteria. Because of less than the 80 sorts in the commercial product, now (from the trademark (?)) may not be called effective microorganisms ? It appears.
Just saying: effective microorganisms is not ONLY a commercial product. --Visionhelp (talk) 08:24, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Removed new section on compost names

I removed this section which had been added to the very front of the article (not the right place) and also contained no references. If you want it back in please discuss here and also reconsider where in the article it fits best (probably under terminology):

"===Commercial composts=== In the British Isles - and possibly elsewhere - the term “compost” can also refer to potting mixes which are bagged up and sold commercially in garden centres and other outlets. This may include composted materials such as manure and peat, but is also likely to contain loam, fertilisers, sand, grit, etc. By far the most popular of these are the multi-purpose composts designed for most aspects of planting. There are also growbags, designed to have crops such as tomatoes directly planted into them. There is a range of specialist composts available, e.g. for vegetables, orchids, houseplants, hanging baskets, roses, ericaceous plants, seedlings, potting on etc. The term “compost” in this sense will also include the various products in the John Innes compost range." EMsmile (talk) 14:13, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Re-added together with an RHS ref in a more appropriate place.  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   14:43, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Forcing gases

Something could be said about how different kinds of composting produce different amounts of CO2 and methane and N2O. --Error (talk) 10:32, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Direct Composting

Is this worth a mention as technique? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mlepisto (talk • contribs) 23:29, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Please expand what you are trying to say? EMsmile (talk) 01:50, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

As I understand it, "direct composting" is a method where a person basically buries the items to be composted into the soil. The item then decomposes and provides nutrients at the point of use. Here's one (first google search result, no affiliation) that discusses it. I have used this method with some success, and noticed it was missing from this article. I'm wondering if it is worth a mention under technologies? https://www.veggiegardener.com/use-direct-composting-in-your-garden/ Mlepisto (talk) 02:17, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

I want to recommend this. Thanks.

Visionhelp (talk) 09:12, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Up to date: Composting in place and Compost In-Situ it is called also.

* https://www.growveg.com/guides/composting-techniques-how-to-compost-in-situ/

* http://compostin.place/
(Sorry, this URL has gone. I would like at least a second source. Until found one I do let it stay just now, please.)

Let me just give this search support, please. I now cannot do the research. But one info: burying (kitchen-) wastes do break down within 4 weeks.

(https://www.ecosia.org/search?q=compost+in+place)

With permission, please: despite the main focus isn´t there on composting, because of the main there is the water household much bettering and therefrom the composting ´just´ a beside effect, but also just depending on the need (and in connection with which time of the year); Back to Eden Gardening Method, Ruth Stout´s method.

Visionhelp (talk) 10:07, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

More specifying and precise, but probably also very dis-placed, but after just being opened my mind to mulch and composting, coming from figuring out Direct composting, before from mulch no-work gardening (but this not in the main for compost, the focus here is water keeping more and longer in the soil, for less effort from watering and for saving the ressources of water), I am now recognizing the beside effect of them (Back To Eden Gardening Method, Ruth Stout´s method, and probably more) of as Direct composting, Composting in place, and also Mulch as an already water saving, work saving, and as a Direct composting and Composting in place method.

In yeartens some talks I never could may be known about this (to) Mulch, not which materials, not the water (the moisture) effects, and not even the composting effect really.
This probably may come from the use of Mulch as just in the difference of the thickness of the mulch layers. (Just an idea, please.)
So this is to the articles Compost and Mulch equaly.

Direct composting (at Youtube to find many videos) is used into healthy soil with being growing plants there, with fast degradable materials as also cooked food. (Breaks down within 4 weeks.)
Mulch, as used by Ruth Stout and in the Back To Eden Gardening Method (in the main wood chips here) is about 8 inches layer used
1.) for keeping water and moisture more and longer in the soil,
2.) to create, establish, a healthy, lividly soil on just clay (loam), with a layer of compost, but at least a layer manure (dung) plus a layer wood chips (keeps already more water in this soil and layers, but the focus here is creating a soil, which itself is a able to keep additionly more and longer water and moisture (creating possible within 2 months).

But AND both create compost, as Direct composting or Composting in place callable, multiply soil, despite ´only´ as side effect, they are ´WITH´: composting methods.
In hope, saying this (here) is OK. Thanks. Best Regards.
Visionhelp (talk) 13:13, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

´Pathogen removal´

Hi.
Pathogens are in organic - Eco - manure as well as in ´traditionel´ - chemical treated food, and what else - manure ? --Visionhelp (talk) 07:49, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

I have deleted that claim as it is unsupported by any citation (and unsupportable because it is totally open-ended). Some pathogens don't survive temperatures above 50°C but not all. Most of what survives will stay in the soil and never be taken up by plants. But not all. Most of what goes into kitchen compost or horse feed is free of pathogens, but not all. So the risk is tiny but we have no basis to claim that it doesn't exist (and won't find any reliable source that says otherwise). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 12:04, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, You did not remove - in a Talk page ! - it really. It is not a claim, it is a question, to recognize from the question mark. Visionhelp (talk) 13:00, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

" ´Not all Pathogens do go with temperatures above 50°C´ ": OK. (A saying against heat composting is secure. But: Because of ´life into soil´ I speak basically against heat composting.)
I took a view into that topic, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathogenicity.
Quote (from the german version of this article (translated with http://free-website-translation.com/?de)):
"Pathogenicity ( retronym suitcase word from the Greek πάθος pathos “suffering, disease” and γένεσις genesis “generation, birth”, cf. -genesis ) is the fundamental ability of infectious agents ( bacteria , parasites , viruses , prions , toxins ), diseases in certain organisms to evoke. [1] The adjective for this is pathogenic (pathogenic, potentially pathogenic), the opposite is non-pathogenic(not pathogenic). Pathogens also with the noun (the) pathogen called. The extent of the pathogenicity (ability of the pathogen to multiply and the intensity of the toxin formation) is referred to as virulence , without a uniform measure being defined for it. [2]".

This to me does say: this is a basic big and comprehensive topic. But not a never-ending.
It further does let me recognize, that in global nature already pathogenic is never to exclude, already without the all the addings from the human being.
With this info about this base I want to stop this point here for now.

To (quote) "Most of what survives will stay in the soil and never be taken up by plants": A need to this I cannot follow.
But alone to avoid poisons in plants I do prefer Eco.
Therefor this my question here, but sorry the double wording (manure) question.
Visionhelp (talk) 09:49, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

This Part Is Not Correct

From the section titled, "Pathogen removal"...

Thermophilic (high-temperature) composting is well known to destroy many seeds and nearly all types of pathogens (exceptions may include prions). The sanitizing qualities of (thermophilic) composting are desirable where there is a high likelihood of pathogens, such as with manure.

From me...

The word "thermophilic" does not mean "high-temperature". The correct meaning is "heat-loving". For example, thermophilic bacteria are heat-loving bacteria. --Thibeinn (talk) 18:43, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Thibeinn: Yes, this is true. So go ahead and correct it! --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 08:53, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Edmonton Composting Facility - closed down

Edmonton Composting Facility is no longer operating and will be demolished according to that page. So maybe it should be in past tense morsontologica (talk) 09:35, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Recent changes and excerpts

Hi User:Sadads some of the big changes that you made in October I disagree with. In particular: you have removed the entire section about composting toilets? Secondly, you have changed the part on animal waste and human waste a lot, to the extent of copying/excerpting the lead from reuse of excreta. This is what the "excerpt" method does, right? It always takes the entire lead from the other article? I don't think this makes sense here because composting is only one technology used for reuse of excreta. EMsmile (talk) 06:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

I've added now an excerpt for composting toilets. But does the excerpt always take the entire lead? Is it possible to only take the first paragraph of the lead? The entire lead might be too much information. EMsmile (talk) 06:24, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

I've figured out how to limit the number of paragraphs of the lead that are to be included in the excerpt. That's good. EMsmile (talk) 08:32, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

I've reinstated the earlier sections on animal manure and bedding, and human excreta and sewage sludge. The excerpting with "reuse of excreta" didn't work well in this case.EMsmile (talk) 08:39, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

@EMsmile: Thats fine -- I was just trying to remove the wildly inconsistent and bad content in the article -- you are totally an expert in the space, so there is probably a lot we could do to push it towards a more thorough and complete article. Sadads (talk) 12:26, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Improving the logical flow of the article

I was struck by User:Sadads comment above on the 'wildly inconsistent and bad content in the article', I had the same reaction when I came across this article. A few people have contributed to improving it recently and I propose to somewhat boldly fix the composting technologies section. Currently the Compost#Composting technologies section highlights several processes that have nothing to do with the aerobic breakdown of organics. Assuming that the definition of aerobic decomposition is agreed upon as the the basis for composting, then these topics need to be downgraded to brief mentions in the last paragraph on related technologies:

• Compost#Composting technologies#Vermicomposting and Compost#Composting technologies#Black soldier fly larvae - consumption of organics by worms and larvae doesn't seem to meet the definition of aerobic composting even though both systems produce wonderful soil amendments.
• Compost#Composting technologies#Bokashi Bokashi is a fermentation process producing material that still needs to breakdown.

Additionally, Compost#Composting technologies#compost tea isn't a composting technologiy, it's method of applying compost and should be moved to Compost#Uses section.

Counterintuitively, the processes that appear to actually produce compost: in-vessel composting, aerated static pile composting and windrow composting are given single word links. I believe that each of these should be linked with excerpts from the related articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walkabout14 (talk • contribs) 14:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I broadly agree with you Walkabout14. It's baffling that this article has lingered for so long in a bad state. I came to it around 6 years ago and found it bad and tried to improve it but it's been a struggle all along. I think one reason is that the words "compost" or "composting" are not used in the same way across the world. It's not always a fully aerobic process. I think "vermicomposting" could stay where it is but agree with you that the black soldier fly larvae info ought to be moved to somewhere else in the article. We should be mindful that this is a high-level article by now and many of the concepts have got their own sub-articles by now. So let's be sure we don't add duplication of content; use excerpts where possible. Looking forward to your improvements! EMsmile (talk) 03:11, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Oh and there used to be a section on "terminology" in the article which I thought was useful but it's been removed along the way somewhere. This is an older version (from 2017) where it was still included: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Compost&oldid=776075606#Terminology . It said this "Composting of waste is an aerobic (in the presence of air) method of decomposing solid wastes. The process involves decomposition of organic waste into humus known as compost which is a good fertilizer for plants. However, the term "composting" is used worldwide with differing meanings. Some composting textbooks narrowly define composting as being an aerobic form of decomposition, primarily by aerobic or facultative microbes.^{[citation needed]} An alternative form of organic decomposition to composting is "anaerobic digestion". For many people, composting is used to refer to several different types of biological processes. In North America, "anaerobic composting" is still a common term for what much of the rest of the world and in technical publications people call "anaerobic digestion". The microbes used and the processes involved are quite different between composting and anaerobic digestion." I believe this content was correct (I had checked it with a composting expert) but there was no reference with it so it got deleted. Later it became like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Compost&oldid=970347857#Terminology The term "composting" is used worldwide with differing meanings. "Humanure" is a portmanteau of human and manure, designating human excrement (feces and urine) that is recycled via composting for agricultural purposes. The term was first used in 1994 in a book by Joseph Jenkins that advocates the use of this organic soil amendment. The term humanure is used by compost enthusiasts in the United States but not widely used elsewhere. Because the term "humanure" has no authoritative definition it is subject to various uses. News reporters may use the term also for sewage sludge or biosolids. . Can we please put a terminology section back in?

References

EMsmile (talk) 03:11, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

I think that the article should talk about the practical possibilities of the heat generated by compost.

It has been shown to be effective, for example, in heating greenhouses. Heating and cooling of houses are big uses of energy and sources of carbon emissions, such a natural heating method should be important in the future.

I think that there should be more detail on how long certain temperatures need to be maintained to destroy pathogens.

This isn't covered and it is very important as lower temperatures are sufficient if maintained for more time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicholas1313Anderson (talk • contribs) 19:50, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Expansion of Compost Tea section

I am thinking of adding a little more information on compost tea because it is a vital compost product and is really useful for pathogen control. Should I make a new section on compost extracts or differentiate between the two under the compost tea section?Figrainfall (talk) 12:18, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

I went a little bit in depth into compost tea production and explained a few concepts. I think we need to develop the compost extracts sectionEmmanuelFiagbe (talk)

I have removed this recently added text because it was written like a "how to" guide and poorly sourced. Consider starting up a new article on "compost tea"? This one is meant to be an overview article. Here is the text block: Compost tea is a mixture of nutrients and aerobic bacteria, fungi, nematodes and other microbes that live in finished compost. It takes time to separate these organisms from compost, which is why compost tea is made by steeping compost in water for a day or more. To create compost tea, you'll need compost and it can be locally acquired or natively constructed, as long as it's totally completed the process of fertilizing the soil. Completed manure has a sweet smell. The measure of fertilizer required fluctuates relying upon the measure of tea you're preparing. For a 5-gallon group, you'll need around 4 cups of manure. A group in a 25-gallon garbage bin will require around 20 cups of manure. Keep away from fertilizers that contain creature excrement, as it might hold e-coli microscopic organisms. Albeit the tea-production cycle should execute e-coli, it's smarter to be protected than sorry. Compost tea contains a considerable amount of soluble mineral nutrients that are readily available for plant uptake that facilitate crop growth and yield. EMsmile (talk) 04:10, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

References

Proposed merge of Uses of compost into Compost

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was… merge Uses of compost into Compost. Qwaiiplayer (talk) 15:58, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

---

Article largely repeats information found in main article without references, and not well maintained. Might be a few things of value still worth merging Sadads (talk) 19:07, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

• Support. I would support this, mainly for reasons of reducing overlap and maintenance work. However, I've been told I am a "generalist" rather than a specialist. Perhaps you could take a look at a similar discussion of merging a smaller article into a bigger one here (merge wastewater into wastewater treatment; and merge sewage into sewage treatment, was my proposal). EMsmile (talk) 13:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Agree I don't think that uses of compost warrants its own article especially given the uses are somewhat limited. if anything composting technologies warrants its own page given its length and the many independent articles Contrawwftw (talk) 04:38, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Just to say that this merger has now been completed. Thank you to Qwaiiplayer. - It would be good if we could beef up the section of "other" under "Uses" a bit more, i.e. uses other than agriculture and gardening. EMsmile (talk) 02:13, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

A list and source of interesst ?

On-Farm Composting Methods, from FOOD AND AGRICULTURE ORGANIZATION OF THE UNITED NATIONS, Rome, 2003
http://www.fao.org/3/y5104e/y5104e00.htm#Contents
--Visionhelp (talk) 13:25, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Home composting

There is very little about practical home composting, which should be corrected as it would make the story more complete and also encourage the practice, which is easy and very productive. There is much on the Web, e.g. the Cornell Waste Management Institute Web site and many others around the world. 2.27.145.218 (talk) 22:47, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Humanure

Humanure currently redirects here, but the term isn't used anywhere in the article body. Is there scope to add a mention somewhere, so the redirect doesn't result in confusion, or should it be retargeted — for example, to Permaculture, where it seems to be discussed in most depth, or Reuse of human excreta, which is probably the main article on the topic? Or does the paucity of mentions of the term in the encyclopaedia suggest the redirect should be deleted and Humanure (album) moved to the base name? – Arms & Hearts (talk) 17:22, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

I have added the term and a couple of citations to reliable sources into the article. Humanure used to be a separate article and was then merged into this article in April 2011. A web search for the term seems to bring up only the composting meaning. I didn't find the album in the first several pages of search results, except for the Wikipedia article about the album, and Wikipedia itself shouldn't be used as evidence of what should be on Wikipedia. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:29, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Seems like a good solution to me, thanks. The same could be done at human excreta (i.e. also mention humanure there) but might not be necessary. A search for "humanure" redirects to this section now which seems fine to me. EMsmile (talk) 08:56, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Apologies, BarrelProof, for the failure to reply at WP:RM and delay in replying here. The material you've added is definitely sufficient to make the redirect useful and obviate the need for a move. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 17:48, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

obte

Interoduce compost fertilzer . Give any two example of it. 2407:5200:300:45BC:7972:58E:27AD:A0E9 (talk) 02:01, 21 February 2022 (UTC)