Talk:Winter Line

Military history: Fortifications / European / German / Italian / World War II

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Winter Line / Gustav Line confusion

Does anyone know the exact relationship between the names Gustav Line and Winter Line? I find that some sources call it one, and some another, with no explanation. DJ Clayworth 17:18, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Here's what I find. Some sources ([1] [2] [3]) consider the Winter Line to be separate from the Gustav Line. Some sites ([4]) consider the Winter Line to be north of Rome. Some consider them to be the same thing. DJ Clayworth 19:09, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The Germans appeared to talk about the Winter Line when Kesselring's strategy was being proposed i.e. holding Rome for as long as possible by preparing a Winter Line to the south to be held at all costs. In the event they built three lines: Gustav, Hitler and Caesar which I gues all the Winter Lines. (?) Stephen Kirrage 23:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Duplication

~~This article is duplicated but in more detail by the Battle of Monte Cassino page. Some consolidation is needed.~~ Stephen Kirrage 16:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's something really unbalanced here. This article is pretty short, when it should really be quite long, as it should describe all the attempts to break the line, especially those outside the Battle of Monte Cassino. I find that Bernhardt Line is really long, whereas the line itself is a subsidiary part of the Winter Line, but Gustav Line, which is the more major part, is just a redirect to this short article. 199.71.183.2 17:49, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. It's a result of the confusing nomeclature of the various lines. Depending on what source you use Winter, Gustav, Bernhardt (and their alternative names) are almost interchangeable. This has been discussed on various talk pages and we seem to have ended up with Winter line as a catch-all covering Gustav, Bernhardt and Hitler. The Winter Line page is just a description of the line but not the battles which appear in the other individual articles. To try to pull it together we created the Winter Line sub-campaign box which appears on all the Winter Line-related articles. The fact that the Bernhardt Line (as defined in Wikipedia) is relatively short but has a substantial article reflects the very major combat required to break the line. Note also that some sources define the Bernhardt Line as crossing the whole country ie including the Gustav defenses on the east side of the country until such time as the defenders moved back to Monte Cassino at which point the whole lot gets redifined as Gustav....confusing. I've made a small addition to the Winter Line article to try and clarify this. Regards. Stephen Kirrage^{talk - contribs} 20:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]