Talk:Władysław Sikorski

Incomplete sentence

"Early life," paragraph 3: the incomplete sentence, "attended Austrian Military School, obtaining a diploma of an officer in the .," requires completion and clarification of its relation to the rest of the paragraph. Logologist 07:36, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Fixed. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:07, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Why did Piłsudski disapprove?

Why did Sikorski's proposal to reduce the powers of the Chief Inspector of the Armed Forces meet with Piłsudski's disapproval? Was Piłsudski then, or did he expect to become, Chief Inspector? Logologist 06:07, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Pilsudski generaly disapproved of anything that weakended the military, I believe. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:09, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Resubmit for FAC status?

How about resubmitting "Wladyslaw Sikorski" for FAC status? The article is informative, reads well, is NPOV, and appears sound. logologist 11:02, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It is already a FA :) Victory! :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 12:33, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

== some possible wording changes ==

"Sikorski was killed in a plane crash into the sea immediately on takeoff from Gibraltar." This sentence would sound better if "in" is replaced by "when" ending with "Sikorski was killed when his plane crash into the sea immediately on takeoff from Gibraltar. "

- I agree, the sentance could use some polishing (haha) 1. it should be 'crashed' (but that is trivial) 2. maybe I'm being a little pedantic, but he died, he wasn't killed. 3. this solution is a little misleading... was it his own plane that crashed? I don't know, but if not, then perhaps something like: "Sikorski died in a plane crash off Gibraltar when the aircraft... blah"

Pronunciation?

This article is in desperate need of a pronunciation guide for the name. --LostLeviathan 16:31, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

De-Irvining

As Irving is not considered too credible, I think we should try to verify the information tagged as coming from his work, and preferably replace it with more credible sources. See also Talk:Katyń_massacre#De-Irvining.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 00:42, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions

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New development

It appears that a new development has occurred. I know nothing about the man, so if someone else would add this info that would be great [1] AdamBiswanger1 23:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• Unfortunately the CNN link above no longer works. We'll have to find out about the "new development" another way! Keesiewonder 23:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Photograph of his statue

Not sure if anyone cares, but Stock.xchng has a photograph of Sikorski's statue here: http://www.sxc.hu/browse.phtml?f=view&id=505414. There are a couple of strings attached to the image (credit is required), and I'm not a copyright expert, but it can probably be used if it's wanted. --Oreckel 22:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use is always an option, as I cannot much of the copyright other than it is copyrighted with quite a few strange restrictions. I have no idea why people upload their images to such troublesome sites; hopefully somebody from London can take a photo of this statue and publish it under a proper copyleft license for us, adding to the commons:Category:Statues in London.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  22:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Conspiracy

I have finished inline referencing the article, it should be mostly up to today's standards. But the conspiracy section could use more work, I am torn between rewriting and expanding it, or just rewriting and shortening it... Good collection of articles here.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  05:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

The aircraft almost certainly crashed due to overloading. Liberators were prone to a phenomenon whereby when retracting the undercarriage the changing position of the undercarriage legs and mainwheels disturbed the airflow over the undersurface of the wing. This resulted in a temporary drop in lift and the aircraft could drop considerably if not caught by the pilot. If overloaded (as the aircraft in wartime often were, and being a 'VIP' flight the passenger's luggage would not have been subject to the same examinations and restrictions on weight as for a more normal flight) the Liberator would have been at a very low altitude when clearing the end of the runway at Gibraltar and then still been very low when the undercarriage was retracted while over the sea. Unfortunately, when taking off in an aircraft very close to (or even slightly over) its MTOW one of the first things a pilot wants to do upon leaving the ground is to get the wheels up so as to 'clean up' the aircraft to increase airspeed and improve the rate of climb. In this case it may well have resulted in the Liberator being so low as to simply drop into the sea as the undercarriage was raised.

[[:Image:SikorskiPlane 1943.jpg|thumb|150px|Sikorski's Liberator, lying on its back with its wheels just having started to retract, in the sea just off Gibraltar following the crash (1943)]]

Upon reaching the sea bed the unlocked undercarriage legs (which presumably did not reach the point of full retraction whereby the uplocks were engaged) would then upon leakage of the hydraulic system be raised (i.e., lowered, but upside down) by the buoyancy of the air in the tyres to the position seen in the photograph.

This is (or was) quite common with aircraft that had ditched with the undercarriage up and then 'planed' down to the seabed ending up inverted. Whilst the hydraulic system retains fluid the undercarriage remains in the 'up' position but as the fluid leaks out over time the uplocks are released and the buoyancy of the air in the tyres extends the undercarriage.

BTW, at the time of the crash Gibraltar had an unusually short runway (due to its geographical location), and was somewhat unpopular with RAF crews flying large bombers and transports. The runway was later extended further out to sea on land created by rock and soil dumping (land reclamation). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.253.164 (talk) 22:45, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Some interesting HMG cabinet papers from 1969 when there was some talk of re-opening the enquiry into the crash are now available as a PDF online here: [2] - according to the pilot the cause of the accident was the elevators jamming. BTW, the accident occurred at night. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.57.101 (talk) 10:15, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

At the time, it was usual - if officially frowned upon - for transport flights from outside the UK, which had strict rationing, to load aircraft up to the gills with items unobtainable back home. Favourite times from the Middle East were things like crates of fresh oranges, and other fruit, as well as boxes of spirits, etc. If the people responsible for loading the aircraft were careless or unfamiliar with the correct loading of aircraft then that could cause all sorts of problems. A heavy box carelessly placed over or against control cables could restrict movement dangerously. In the case of VIP flights - such as Sikorski's would have been - it was reliant on the pilot being up to countermanding any orders from higher ranking people to load the aeroplane dangerously. This isn't necessarily what happened in Sikorski's case, but it is quite likely.

BTW, the Sperry autopilots of the time when turned on had to be given time for the gyros to run up to speed before engaging the autopilot itself, otherwise the aircraft would perform unpredictable manoeuvres as the autopilot had no stable internal reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.216.123 (talk) 10:28, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sikorski Portal Dyon 300.jpg

Image:Sikorski Portal Dyon 300.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Sikorski Poplawski.jpg

Image:Sikorski Poplawski.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:SikorskiPlane 1943.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:Sikorski funeral 1943.jpg

Image:Sikorski funeral 1943.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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Image problems

The following images have problems—I encourage any interested editor to fix:

• Image:Naramiennik Generał broni land.png (on Commons, deprecated image tag)
• Image:Bitwa warszawska 1920.JPG (lacks rationale, potential PD-old-50) deleted
• Image:Poland First To Fight.jpg (lacks rationale for this article)
• Image:Sikorski Lyon-Bron.jpg (lacks rationale, could use more specific tag) deleted
• Image:Sikorski Zumbach.jpg (copyright status in US unclear)
• Image:Sikorski Kukiel WSC Raczyns 1940s.jpg (lacks rationale, could use more specific tag) rationale added
• Image:Sikorski funeral 1943.jpg (lacks rationale, could use more specific tag) rationale added

Pagrashtak 19:19, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Stanisław Mikołajczyk

The following seems confusing/wrong - where on September 28 he((Sikorski)) joined Władysław Raczkiewicz and Stanisław Mikołajczyk in a Polish government-in-exile.

In his book The Pattern of Soviet Domination by Stanisław Mikołajczyk, on page 7 it states he meet the General ((Sikorski)) at the end of November. At this point he was still a private in the army and only at this meeting was he put to work in the Polish government-in-exile. Anyone agree/disagree this confusing/wrong? Jniech (talk) 09:53, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Lech Wałęsa vs. Jaruzelski as first post-communist President

I would say at least ten times as many sources support Lech Wałęsa being the first post-communist President. I suggest reference to Jaruzelski is removed. For now I have put four references supporting Lech Wałęsa and one supporting Jaruzelski and will see reaction from other editors. Jniech (talk) 13:00, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing in article

In the section Prime Minister in Exile, when compared to an online version of David Irving's Accident: The Death of General Sikorski'. [3]

• Book: "Sikorski insisted that there could be no question of Poland alone emerging from the war with territorial losses."
• Article: "Sikorski insisted that there could be no question of Poland emerging from the war with territorial losses."

• Book: "To Sikorski it nonetheless became clear during the first months of 1942 that the Soviet Union still had post-war designs on Polish territories, involving concessions to which he had no mandate from his nation to accede."
• Article: "Nonetheless, it soon became clear to Sikorski that the Soviet Union still had post-war plans for Polish territories, involving concessions to which he had no mandate from his nation to accede."

• Book: "Russia wanted the Baltic States, which Poland had always considered as being in her own sphere of interest; and she wanted the Curzon Line, which none of the Polish Government, least of all General Sikorski, was prepared to accept."
• Article: "...it wanted the Baltic states, which Poland had always considered as lying within her own sphere of interest; and moreover it wanted to establish the Curzon Line border, which the government-in-exile (and least of all General Sikorski) would never accept."

• Book: "...Stafford Cripps informed General Sikorski in London that from what he had privately learned in Moscow, Stalin planned to annex Germany's East Prussia to Poland in the west, but also to force back Poland's eastern frontier very considerably..."
• Article: "...Stafford Cripps informed General Sikorski that, from what he had privately learned in Moscow, Stalin planned to annex Germany's East Prussia to Poland in the west, but also to considerably push westward Poland's eastern frontier". Novickas (talk) 12:26, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Rewritten.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 02:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

IPA

Why is u with a semivowel marker used instead of w in the transcription? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.235.138.79 (talk) 21:37, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Faulty translation?

Can someone verify that the thing uttered by a Polish officer on seeing the crash, 'To Polska stracona', is correctly translated? Isn't it closer to 'So Poland is lost' than 'This is the end of Poland'? MJM74 (talk) 03:22, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

B-class review

This article is currently at start/C class, but could be improved to B-class if it had more (inline) citations. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 23:26, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Poland at WWII conferences

Poland was not represented at the Tehran, Yalta or Potsdam conferences. - So you people think that this is a controversial claim. Well, I disagree. But I give up. - JohnnyWiki (talk) 01:39, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

General Sikorski's book issued in 1943

In 1943 in New York the book "Modern Warfare" written by General Wladyslaw Sikorski was issued /first issue/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.196.217 (talk) 13:27, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Władysław Sikorski/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

needs inline citations --plange 20:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 20:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 10:56, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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St Andrews Statue

There is a Statue of Sikorski in St Andrews (Scotland) (near St Andrews Museum which ) and there is even a photo of it on wikimedia https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:General_Sikorski_-_geograph.org.uk_-_423537.jpg

What is the proper way to add this information to the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.214.213 (talk) 22:28, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Roosevelt

The traitor has to be linked too - Franklin D. Roosevelt 185.16.53.93 (talk) 20:48, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Internment / Concentration camps in Scotland

There should be detailed discussion on the many Concentration camps created in Scotland, as sovereign Polish territory, during WW2. There are plenty of citeable references, including Hansard.

It would appear that Sikorski was the architect of the policy and its implementation.

It would appear that there is evidence that Jews, deviants [e.g. homosexuals], communists and simple dissenters were interred without recourse to jurisprudence.

There is evidence that they were mistreated, chained up and, on at least one occasion killed. And that the prisons were still in use a year after the end of the second world war.

One simple source for reference: https://polishforums.com/history/poland-concentration-camp-22756/16/ 2A00:23C6:8093:FF01:8877:3B94:D22B:C7C2 (talk) 10:38, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Please provide reliable sources. User-generated content is generally unacceptable, especially on articles like this one. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 16:54, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 August 2023

on this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Sikorski

Misleading line has been added: Please note as the IPN official revelations that the aircrash of Sikorski Flight AL523 was not due to the cargo shifting. Even the bottom of the page which is CORRECT STATES

In 2008 Sikorski was exhumed and his remains were examined by Polish scientists, who in 2009 concluded that he died due to injuries consistent with an air crash and that there was no evidence that Sikorski was murdered, ruling out theories that he was shot or strangled before the incident; however they did not rule out the possibility of sabotage, which is still being investigated by the Polish Institute of National Remembrance.[48][49][50] As of 2012, the investigation continues.[51]

Honours and awards

You cannot allow someone to taint history through their NO PROOF as no investigation has determined that there was a shifting of the cargo to cause this. FACT. Please do you history, the British and IPN neither claim this, therefore this is a blatent lie to mislead the world.

Please reply if in doubt to me.

I am an author on this subject and know it well, probably better than most. Bronislaw Urbanski 08:13, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: I am an author on this subject and know it well, probably better than most good for you. You probably missed the part that says: "this template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y"." M.Bitton (talk) 17:00, 7 August 2023 (UTC)