Talk:Purushamedha

e.g. http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/hinduism/14669/20/collapsed/5/o/1 dab (ᛏ) 11:10, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Remove upper caste hindu bias please

The statement that :

"The Vedic sacrifice is generally believed to have been purely symbolic, with no actual killing of a human being."

is totally ambiguious, misleading and negating the fact mentioned in the ancient hindu texts. I dont understand why this statement is added. It seems to hide the barbaric rituals of brahmins in vedic times.

Please remove this statement as it is against NPOV. The practice may not be followed by majority hindus but in tantras it is still going on. The Tantrics(male witches) sacrifice children even now in remote india & it get reported in newspapers. See Vishnukundina ( under heading religion ) which mentions that it was going on in the reign of brahmin king Madhav Varma II. --Anirudh777 06:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You're pretty ill informed aren't you? Tantriks follow tantras, which are not related to vedas. Purusha is a symbolic representation of society, thus the ritual is also symbolic. Leafy 13:18, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with you. The statement is not even ambiguous, it is just false. Anthropology XXI (talk) 15:36, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Sacrifice of Man (purusha) in Rigveda

From http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10090.htm

    Rigveda Chapter –10   Hymn XC
6 When Gods prepared the sacrifice with Purusa as their offering.
  Its oil was spring, the holy gift was autumn,summer was the wood.
7 They balmed as victim on the grass Purusa born in earliest time.
  With him the Deities and all Sadhyas and Rsis sacrificed.
8 From that great general sacrifice the dripping fat was gathered up.
11 When they divided Purusa how many portions did they make?
15 Seven fencing-sticks had he,thrice seven layers of fuel were prepared,
  When the Gods, offering sacrifice, bound, as their victim, Purusa.
16 Gods, sacrificing, sacrificed the victim these were the earliest holy ordinances.
  The Mighty Ones attained the height of heaven,
  there where the Sidhyas, Gods of old, are dwelling.

This is to be considered w/o any prejudice and in a scientific manner. --Anirudh777 09:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Change the word 'scientific' to 'critical' because in a scientific manner you have to dig up for a thousand eyed legged creature.

Please read the entire hymn from your link. It is sacrifice of the cosmic man - with a thousand eyes and thousand hands - not an ordinary human being. It symbolizes the creation of mankind from the sacrifice of Purusha. What is your point? --63.81.205.20 19:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Mr.63.81.205.20 This tells about sacrifice of man on stakes by fire. see my text on Talk:Vedic religion.These verses describe that a man is being burnt in fire, its molten fat is gathered up & its meat is divided in portions. As per the earlier customs the meat of sacrifices was considered holy & was distributed as a sacrament(for eating). It proves that early hindus were barbaric cannibals who used to sacrifice humans to gods. Other(hidden) verses(about cosmic man) in this purusha-sukta are just hyperbolic imaginations to glorify the misdeed, because such creature does not exist. It was a tradition in olden times to write a skeletal idea(just like the above verses) then add some teaching & fantasy to create a dogma for mass consumption. --Anirudh777 09:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

No, it is only your strange allegation that makes it sound so. Leafy 13:21, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

"It proves that early hindus were barbaric cannibals who used to sacrifice humans to gods." They were not "barbaric", they were just religious, as any other men of other cultures.Anthropology XXI (talk) 15:38, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Procedure for Human Sacrifice in Hinduism

I have found an interesting material on this.

It is sourced from the book called : “Riddles in Hinduism” by Dr. B.R.Ambedkar.

Source Link : http://www.ambedkar.org/ambcd/

He says he took it from Kali Purana - Rudhir Adhyaya. Here it describes a procedure for human sacrifice to goddess(devi) Kali.

The topic is : Riddle No. 15

HOW DID THE BRAHMINS WED AN AHIMSAK GOD TO A BLOODTHIRSTY GODDESS?

.

.

"Now attend to the particulars relative to the offering of human blood."

"Let a human victim be sacrificed at a place of holy worship, or at a cemetery where dead bodies are burried. Let the oblation be performed in the part of the cemetery called Heruca, which has been already described, or at a temple of Camachya, or on a mountain. Now attend to the mode."

"The human victim is to be immolated in the east division which is sacred to Bhairava, the head is to be presented in the south division, which is looked upon as the place sculls sacred to Bhairavi, and the blood is to be presented in the west division, which is denominated Heruca."

" Having immolated a human victim, with all the requisite ceremonies at a cemetery or holy place, let the sacrificer be cautious not to cast eyes upon the victim." " On other occasion also, let not the sacrificer, cast eyes upon the victim immolated, but present the head with eyes averted.The victim must be a person of good appearance, and be prepared by ablutions, and requisite ceremonies, such as eating consecrated food the day before, and by abstinance from flesh and venery: and must be adorned with chaplets of flowers and besmeared with sandal wood. "

"Then causing the victim to face the north, let the sacrificer worship the several deities presiding over the different parts of the victims body: let the worship be then paid to the victim himself by his name. Thus let the sacrificer worship the victim, adding whatever other texts are applicable to the occasion, and have been before mentioned."

"Let not the female, whether quadruped or bird, or a woman be ever sacrificed; the sacrificer of either will indubitably fall into hell, where the victim of either the beasts or birds creation, are very numerous, the immolation of a female is excusable; but this rule does not hold good, as to the human species."

" Let not a Brahman or a Chandala be sacrificed; nor a prince; nor that which has already been presented to a Brahmen, or a deity; nor the offspring of a prince, nor who has conquered in battle; nor the offspring of a Brahman, or of a Cshettree; nor a childless brother, nor a father, nor a learned person, nor one who is unwilling, nor the maternal uncle of the sacrificer. Those not here named, and animals, and birds of unknown species are unfit. If these named are not forth coming, let their place be supplied by a male ass or camel. If other animals are forth coming, the sacrifice of a tiger, camel, or ass must be avoided."

" Having first worshipped the victim, whether human, beast, or bird, as directed, let the sacrificer, immolate him uttering the Mantra directed for the occasion, and address the deity with the text laid down before."

" Let the head and blood of a human victim be presented on the right side of Devi, and the sacrificer address her standing in front. Let the head and blood of birds be presented on the left and the blood of a person's own body in front. Let the ambrosia proceeding from the heads of carnivorous animals and birds be presented on the left hand. as also the blood of all aquatic animals."

“Let princes, ministers of state, counsellors, and vendors of spirituous liquors, make human sacrifices, for the purpose of attaining prosperity and wealth. If a human sacrifice is performed, without the consent of the prince, the performer incurs sin. In cases of imminent danger or war, sacrifices may be performed at pleasure, by princes themselves and their ministers, but by none else."

" The day previous to a human sacrifice, let the victim be prepared by the text Manastac, and three Devi Gandha Sucthas, and the texts Wadrang; and by touching his head with the axe, and besmearing the axe with sandal &c., perfumes, and then taking some of the sandal, &c., from off the axe, and besmearing the victim's neck therewith. Then let the text Ambe Ambica, &c., and the Towdra and Bhairava texts be used, and Devi herself will guard the victim who, when thus purified, malady does not approach him, nor does his mind suffer any derangement from grief and similar causes, nor does the death or birth of a kinsman render him impure."

" Having secured the victim with cords, and also with (Mantras) let him strike off the head, and present it to Devi, with due care. Let him make these sacrifices in proportion to the increase or decrease of his enemies, chopping off the heads of victims for the purpose of bringing destruction on his foes, infusing, by holy texts, the soul of the enemy into the body of the victim, which will when immolated, deprive the foe of life also."

"The blood must be drawn for the express purpose of an oblation, and from a man pure in body and mind, and free from fear; it must be caught in the petal of lotus and presented. It may be presented in a gold, silver, brass or iron vessle, with the due from, the texts recited." "The blood, if drawn by incision made with a knife, axe or sangeul, gives pleasure, in proportion to the size of the weapon. The sacrificer may present one fourth of the quantity which a lotus petal will contain, but he must not give more on any account; nor cut his body more than is necessary. He who willingly offers the blood of his body and his own flesh, the size of a grain of linseed, Masha, tila, or mudya, with zeal and fervency, obtains what he desires in the course of six months." He who performs sacrifices according to these rules, obtains, his wishes to the utmost extent." --L.Gautam 09:55, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

More Evidence Found

Guys, please take a look at the Satapatha Brahmana, Thirteenth Kanda, Sixth Adhyaya, Second Brahmana. Verse 13 clearly states that the "victims" are supposed to be released unharmed, and that no actual killing should take place. I will add this to the article. Hokie Tech (talk) 23:04, 10 May 2010 (UTC)Hokie Tech

The article is already fully aware of this. Nobody is suggesting the Purushamedha was an actual human sacrifice even in Vedic times. I don't know what the comment on Vadhula Anvakhyana is doing in this article. It is undisputed that there was human sacrifice in India, but it is also undisputed that the Vedic Purushamedha was not among these. --dab (𒁳) 19:38, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Samkhya

We might want to mention the fact that in the Samkhya school of philosophy, the term "Purusha" actually means "Spirit/Being/Consciousness". One way of interpreting the Purusha sukta is that the entire universe came from Spirit/Being/Consciousness. This is corroborated by a verse from the Chandogya Upanishad:

Part Six, Chapter II — Brahman: the Cause of the Universe

1. "In the beginning, my dear, this universe was Being (Sat) alone, one only without a second. Some say that in the beginning this was non—being (asat) alone, one only without a second; and from that non—being, being was born."
2. Aruni said: "But how, indeed, could it be thus, my dear? How could Being be born from non—being? No, my dear, it was Being alone that existed in the beginning, one only without a second.
3. "It (Being, or Brahman) thought: ‘May I be many; may I grow forth.’ It created fire. That fire thought: ‘May I be many; may I grow forth.’ It created water. That is why, whenever a person is hot and perspires, water is produced from fire (heat) alone.

4. "That water thought: ‘May I be many; may I grow forth.’ It created food (i.e. earth). That is why, whenever it rains anywhere, abundant food is produced. From water alone is edible food produced.

Hokie Tech (talk) 17:35, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Vadhula Anvakhyana

User:Sindhutvavadi keeps adding a reference to the Vadhula Anvakhyana to the article. However, he doesn't provide a link to the text (either the original Sanskrit or an English translation). Please provide a link to the text or the reference will be deleted. Hokie Tech (talk) 20:23, 4 December 2010 (UTC) == Can you read? The Vedic section of this entry clearly says where in Vadhula Brahmana the quote is found, and where it s published: Vadhula Anvakhyana 4.108 (ed. Caland, Acta Orientalia 6, p.229). Next time around I may also add the Sanskrit text (in Vedic). === Sindhutvavadin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sindhutvavadin (talk • contribs) 22:31, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

How to reconcile Kamakhya Temple human sacrifice, etc.?

It is known that actual human sacrifices were performed in the Kamakhya Temple of Assam, with real killing of human beings, until, banned by the English, it was replaced by the ritualist replacement of a flour effigy. There's also the ritual sacrifices by the Thuggee cult, involved with Tantricism, and the use of the remains of the sacrificed / murdered for black magic, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AchisDeGeth (talk • contribs) 11:34, 21 September 2013 (UTC)