Talk:Sverre of Norway

Comment by Haukurth

Sverris saga is the name of the book in the language in which it was composed. It's also probably the most common way to refer to it in English. A quick Google check gives me the following results:

• 151 English pages for "Sverris saga"
• 24 English pages for "Sverres saga"
• 14 English pages for "Sverrir's saga"
• 12 English pages for "Sverre's saga"

According to the much disputed Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English):

"If you are talking about a person, country, town, movie or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name..."

Did anyone else see that an AIDS article was showing up when you clicked on the continue link from the main page?

Personally I tend to prefer the most pedantically correct version, even if some other versions are frequently used in English. But in this happy case it seems to me that the form I'd like to use anyhow is the most frequently used in English. Granted, a Google test isn't perfect, especially when the results are so few, but a ratio of more than 10-to-1 seems to be a good clue.

Haukurth 12:24, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Sverre, även Sverre prest (pejorativt), kung av Norge 1177-1202. Född på Färöarna. Påstod sig vara utomäktenskaplig son till den norske kungen Sigurd Munn, vilket han ska ha fått veta först i vuxen ålder av sin mor. Reste till Norge under det uppror mot kung Magnus Erlingsson som Birkebeinarna startat 1174 och började arbeta för att överta tronen. Sverre sökte stöd i Sverige hos Birger brosa som dock uppges ha misstänkt att han var en bedragare och avvisade honom. Birger som tidigare aktivt stött upprorsledaren Eystein Meyla accepterade dock senare Sverre som den nye birkebeinarledaren. Redan 1177 utsågs Sverre till Norges kung av sina anhängare, även om han i praktiken endast blev kung över Tröndelag. Efter ett antal mindre strider vann Sverres styrkor mycket överraskande en stor seger över kung Magnus Erlingssons betydligt större här på Kalvskinnet vid Nidaros 1179. Norges verklige härskare vid denna tid jarlen Erling skakke - kung Magnus far - stupade i slaget och Magnus själv flydde. Inbördeskriget fortsatte i flera år med osäker utgång tills kung Magnus stupade i slaget vid Fimreite 1184

Sverre vaks opp på Kyrkjubø på Færøyane. Han må ha hatt særskilde evner, for Roe, biskopen der på øyane, sette han i prestelære. Som vaksen skal han ha fått høyra av mor si at han var son av kong Sigurd II Munn. Korleis det no var med den saka, så gav det legitimitet til eit meir storlåtent prosjekt enn ei karriere innan kyrkja hadde vore. Sverre tok kontakt med den leiande opprørsflokken i landet, Birkebeinane, som sto utan hovding etter at Øystein Øysteinsson Møyla fall i Slaget på Re. Dei tok han til hovding og han viste seg raskt som ein taktisk dyktig herførar. Han klarte på kort tid å få seg sjøl hylla som konge på Øyratinget, men det tok fleire år før kongsmakta var endeleg sikra.

Sverres liv är i sina huvuddrag känt genom politiska propagandaskrifter, framför allt de starkt tendentiösa Baglersagorna. Neutrala historiska fakta är mycket svåra att vaska fram. Man vet inte ens om Sverre verkligen var son till Sigurd Munn eller inte.

Please use English on talk pages in this wikipedia if you wish to encourage debate. Deb 08:56, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I have got an impression that Deb willingly uses other languages, even such she does not have command over. Thus, this is, for Deb, a good opportunity to get acquainted with other languages. 217.140.193.123 07:12, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Seems to be a text dump from the Norwegian and Swedish wikis Fornadan (t) 14:52, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Helping with Copyediting

Don't mind me... Let me know if I mangle a meaning or something. Very interesting. I don't know a whole lot about the subject.

Roodog2k 19:16, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Just go along, this is just the kind of help I've been looking for. It's very helpfull to hear what the general reader consider unclear. Your only problematic edit so far have been in the section which now read:

According to the saga, Sverre was born in 1151 to Gunnhild and her husband Unås, a comb maker from the Faeroes. When Sverre was five, the family moved to the Faeroes where Sverre was raised in the household of Unås’ brother Roe, bishop on the Faeroes. It was here that Sverre studied for the priesthood and was ordained. Sverre, however, was not suited for a priestly life. The saga states that he had several dreams which he interpreted as a sign that he was destined for greater things. Further, in 1175, his mother revealed that Sverre was really the son of king Sigurd Munn. In the following year, Sverre travelled to Norway to seek his destiny.

This is a bit tricky. The saga states that when Sverre was born, Gunnhild and Unås were married, but Sverre can't be the son of both Unås and Sigurd. But how to formulate this while sticking to NPOV? Fornadan (t) 20:09, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

I think you just did so perfectly! I wasn't sure if the fact in question was found in The Saga itself OR if its The Saga that calls the fact into question. Roodog2k 14:34, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Sverre's Paternity

You said it so well above "The saga states that when Sverre was born, Gunnhild and Unås were married, but Sverre can't be the son of both Unås and Sigurd." that I pasted it into the document. I do not think there is a POV issue here, since its supported with other facts.

BTW, those last edits were mine. I didn;t realize I had been logged-out.

Roodog2k 15:43, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

There is something confusing. The current text says "According to Canon law, however, candidates had to be at least 30 years old to be eligible, which places Sverre’s birth no later than 1145." Eligible for what? My first thought: "to be king". My second thought: "to be a priest". What was meant? Zaslav 22:20, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

To be a priest. Fornadan (t) 22:26, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Heklungene

Is there any backing to this articles etymology to the word "Heklungene"? Sverris saga states the origin of the word being that king Magnus and his men found an old coat (norse: hekla) with silver hidden in it. Sverre's men heard this story and invented the word to imply that Magnus had been reduced to living off the inheritance of an old beggar. --Tokle 21:29, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

The argument that the name 'Heklungene' is related to the habit of monks, pertaining to the alledged close relationship with the church is ridiculous. To the contrary, King Sverre and the Birkebeiner party were at odds with the churc (cf. the interdict put upon Norway during the reign of King Sverre).

Nice Image

I like the image! Very sweet. Roodog2k 02:13, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Page move

I've moved this page from Sverre I of Norway to Sverre of Norway since there has been only one Norwegian king with that name and it's unlikely that there will ever be a Sverre II. Now to get rid of the double redirects. Fornadan (t) 11:16, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

References

I'd very much like to see this article featured some day, but the lack of (English) references is probably the biggest problem atm. I've added the few I've used. Fornadan (t) 22:02, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

A message from the George Psalmanazar International Appreciation Society

Sverre of Norway is a featured article which may qualify for the George Psalmanazar Prize in Forgotten Biography. If there has been no book-length biography in English written on the subject since 1950, you may claim the grand bounty of $10.00 USD at Wikipedia:Bounty board. Please direct all inquiries to the board of the George Psalmanazar International Appreciation Society.

Hate to be a killjoy but: Geoffrey Malcolm Gathorne-Hardy (1956). A royal impostor: King Sverre of Norway, London: Oxford University Press. (Barend 15:36, 31 January 2006 (UTC))

End of civil wars period

With regard to the sentence: "The civil wars period of Norwegian history lasted from 1130 to 1217," which also appears in many articles about other Norwegian kings of the period: I disagree with the designation of the year 1217 as the end of the civil wars period. The civil wars dragged on throughout the 1220s, even though the birkebeiner and bagler were finally reconciled in 1217. I have also seen 1230 as an end date for the civil wars period, but more commonly 1240, when the final rebellion against Håkon Håkonsson was put down. In my recent change to the article on Håkon Håkonsson I have change the end year from 1217 to 1240. Does anyone have strong feelings for keeping the year 1217 in this article? Barend 12:48, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Bergenhus - Sverresborg

I see you disagree on my changing the name Bergenshus to Sverresborg. Bergenshus is definitely wrong, as the correct spelling is Bergenhus. Apart from the fact that the name Bergenhus wasn't introduced until sometime around 1600, and is here an anachronism, the only form of fortification that existed in the 1190s was what is now called Sverresborg, which is separate from present Bergenhus fortress. A reference in English is here: http://www.bergen.kommune.no/info/world_heritage_city.html. If you can read Norwegian, there are several other references on the web, just google Sverresborg +Bergenhus. (Barend 13:49, 14 November 2005 (UTC))

Didn't know that there is also a Sverresborg in Bergen. The proper way to do this is probably to have Sverresborg, Bergen and Sverresborg, Trondheim and then have disambiguation page at Sverresborg Fornadan (t) 14:15, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

A Prince is Born

Lovely! We may finally have Sverre II of Norway in 50 years or so :) - Dhkbk 21:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Only if Ingrid Alexandra dies young without children Fornadan (t) 23:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Oops, sorry. Had my line-to-the-throne mixed up. - Dhkbk 07:45, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

References

For a featured article, this seems to be lacking in specific citations. Ardric47 01:04, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

On veracity of Sverre's claim to royal blood.

I would add a reference to my last edit, refuting the canon law-argument against Sverre, but I am not quite sure how. So I put the reference here: Magnús Stefánsson: "Kong Sverres alder og prestevigsel", in Historisk tidsskrift, bd. 85, p. 279-288 (Oslo, 2006). Magnús lists the age at which successive bishops on Iceland became priests:Þorlákr Þórhallsson, 27/28 years old in 1150/51; Guðmundr Arason, 23 y (1185); Ísleifr Gizurarson, 20 y (1026); Gizurr Ísleifsson, <24 y (<1066), Árni Þorláksson, 27 y (1264). In one case, in 926, a five-year-old boy was consecrated bishop of Rheims. Admittedly, this is a couple of centuries before Sverre. Magnús also goes on to list prominent historians who agree with his view that the canon law-argument against Sverre is defunct, and chides Claus Krag for having ignored it in his recent book on Sverre.--Barend 15:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Sverre of Norway/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

needs inline citations --plange 20:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 20:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 07:25, 30 April 2016 (UTC)