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Fact Check

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A recent edit to the article states: "In 1909, together with Lucy Parsons, she renounced anarchism and joined the Communist Party of America."

Yet the Lucy Parsons article states that Parsons joined in 1939. What is the source for this edit?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.168.133 (talk) 08:43, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Upon further research it would appear to be Bob Black who added this sentence to this article, and the one on Lucy Parsons. Given the history of this individual with regards to the anarchist movement, the current conflict between two statements inserted by one individual, and the lack of any evidence provided to support it thus far, I'm going to remove it for now. I'm also adding a fact check request to the Lucy Parsons page.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.168.133 (talk) 02:11, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
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GA Review

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Voltairine de Cleyre/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Grnrchst (talk · contribs) 09:57, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Edwininlondon (talk · contribs) 15:36, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'd be happy to review this in the next few days. I may make the odd minor edit in the process. Edwininlondon (talk) 15:36, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking this on! I look forward to your review :) --Grnrchst (talk) 17:08, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry to have to deliver bad news, but the article simply is too long, as per WP:TOOBIG. It should be trimmed down by 25-30%. This may not be an easy task, but I'm afraid this has to be done. I'm happy to keep the review open, if you like, giving you a chance to work on this in the next few weeks. The only thing I want to add at this stage is that most of the items in Other sources are not used at all in the article. It is expected that every source listed is actually used. Edwininlondon (talk) 09:01, 17 September 2024 (UTC) Edwininlondon (talk) 09:01, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I figured I'd have to cut down on this, so I'll be sure to get to trimming it soon. As for the "other sources", those were previously cited in an earlier version of the article; I was supposed to move them to a further reading section, but I guess I forgot to do that. It's rectified now.
I'll try trimming it down over the coming days. If you're willing and able, some pointers for where to start would help me a lot at figuring out what kind of things to cut. --Grnrchst (talk) 09:20, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not at all familiar with the topic, so it's tricky for me to judge what should be trimmed. It seems to me each of the sections are worth keeping. I'd go through each section and ask myself: What is essential? How can I say the same with fewer words. Childhood section probably is the easiest to cut down on. Edwininlondon (talk) 15:45, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Doing that now, cutting all the superfluous details. Grnrchst (talk) 16:00, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wee update, sorry for the delay. I've so far managed to trim 10% of the article away; I'm hoping I'll be able to get it down further over the next few days. I'll probably have to do another pass in order to get the word count below 10,000, but this first pass has already led to the prose being tighter, so I'm happy to do it. --Grnrchst (talk) 15:58, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just finished my first pass and I've gotten it down 17.5%. I'll give it another pass soon and see how much more I can trim. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:24, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Edwininlondon: Hey there! Apologies for taking so long to see to this, my hands have been full. I have finished my second pass and successfully trimmed the article by more than 25%, bringing it down to less than 10,000 words. I think this has helped a lot to keep to the most essential information. Let me know if there's anything else to do and how to proceed further with this review. :) Grnrchst (talk) 14:32, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Grnrchst: Great job! It looks more like an article now and less like a biography book. I will start reviewing the body of the article. Could you meanwhile try to trim the lead? Word count is 522 while WP:TOOBIG mentions 400 for the lead and "usually be no longer than four paragraphs". Edwininlondon (talk) 06:48, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 09:53, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead:

  • Voltairine de Cleyre (November 17, 1866 – June 20, 1912) --> we have to deal with the name issue as per MOS:NEE. See as an example FA Barbara Bush
  • as an American anarchist and feminist writer and public speaker --> would "anarchist, feminist writer and public speaker" not be better?
  • rationalist publications --> nationalist publications
  • able to fully recover, but was able --> duplication of able
  • towards the end of the 1900s --> that's around 1995

Body

  • Voltairine de Cleyre was born on November 17, 1866, in Leslie, Michigan.[1] She was the third daughter of Hector De Claire --> we have to deal with the name issue right upfront. See MOS:NEE and as an example FA Barbara Bush
  • There Voltairine grew up --> as per MOS:SURNAME and MOS:SAMESURNAME use surname and not Voltaire, unless it's necessary to disambiguate
  • She also recalled that, unable to afford Christmas presents, the two sisters made gifts for their parents out of scraps.[7] --> too much detail, drop
  • he would regularly complain about her writing letters to him in pencil. --> although I like the idea of adding this detail, it only leaves me wondering why: did he want her to use a pen? was pencil to expensive? did he want her not to write letters at all? But since we should not increase word count further, I vote for dropping this
  • Hippolyte Havel described --> he needs a bit of an intro, something along the lines of "Anarchist Hippolyte Havel described her earliest poems later
  • "beautiful spirit." --> "beautiful spirit". as per MOS:INOROUT
  • Each Sunday, her father tried to cheer her up with visits to the local park or taking her on ferry boat rides, but her homesickness only got worse.[21] --> too much detail, drop
  • Within a few weeks of arriving at the convent, she attempted to escape, crossing the river back to Port Huron and immediately setting off to St. Johns. But after seventeen miles of walking, she realized she would never make it home and turned back. --> keep but shorten to something like: Within a few weeks of arriving at the convent, she escaped but returned back, realizing she would never make it to St. Johns.
  • one letter from Adelaide was only released to her following her father's intervention --> drop
  • When she wrote to her mother before her fourteenth birthday, she was clearly happier and was beginning to display her improving literary skills in her letters.[32] --> drop, the gist is covered by preceding and following sentence
  • Weeks before she was due to graduate, she was already exhausted by her frequent punishment, as well as by a bout of catarrh. She was sent home to rest, but was warned by the nuns that she would remain under strict surveillance, which made her agitated and paranoid. After recovering, she returned to the convent. --> could easily be dropped
  • for which she finally graduated --> do we need finally?
  • a convinced freethinker --> de-link, was already linked before
  • under the pen names --> why is this plural?
  • seeing the "wonderful sweet things" of the world --> while it is nice to know she enjoyed the travel, I am left in this section with an unanswered key question: what were these lectures about? Is there anything more to say than the label freethinking?
  • de Cleyre's conversion --> De Cleyre's conversion as per MOS:LCITEMS. Check rest of article for this as well
  • people that had defended --> people who had defended
  • anarchists and regularly attended --> a comma is needed somewhere
  • some of the most powerful speeches of her career --> according to whom?
  • The affair deeply affected de Cleyre, who dedicated poems to people that had defended the Haymarket anarchists and regularly attended annual commemorations of the affair, where she delivered some of the most powerful speeches of her career. --> It seems to me this bit should come later. Now we're jumping around in time
  • was really a possibility --> was really possibile
  • until Lum's death --> in what year?
  • She paid for his medical education --> whoah! not toommany sentences ago she lived in poor conditions
  • first met Emma Goldman --> first met anarchist Emma Goldman
  • an interpersonal feud --> a personal feud
  • They personally disliked each other's partners and insulted each other's looks, with de Cleyre thinking Goldman to be "dumpy and unattractive",[117] while Goldman could not understand why men found de Cleyre so attractive when she lived such an ascetic lifestyle. --> this could easily be dropped
  • to an act of justice." --> to an act of justice".
  • In the early 1890s, --> a bit unfortunate that the start of the section is "By the turn of the century," Feels like we're jumping around for no good reason
  • had previously funded his legal defense --> again mysterious given "sustained poverty" a bit earlier. Needs an explanation
  • arguments with her partner increased --> sorry, I lost track who this is
  • arriving in Liverpool within a week and subsequently heading to London by train --> too much detail
  • showed her all of London's tourist attractions --> too much detail
  • She even traveled to visit Stonehenge, which she had wanted to see her whole life, and was mesmerized by the site and its surrounding countryside. --> --> too much detail
  • On September 25, 1897 --> Just say September 1897
  • on October 6 --> drop, too specific
  • She was thrown a farewell party on her last night in London, after which she journeyed to Southampton and disembarked for her return to America. --> too much detail, just say she returned home
  • prosecution of the war --> is that really the right word?
  • which worsened her health --> drop, we just said so
  • She was able to find a quiet farm --> I get the feeling again here that we are giving her every move, as if this is her full-blown bio. This section could be trimmed still further, especially the 2nd paragraph
  • harassed their members --> mind WP:NPOV
  • return home on January 2, 1903 --> as the 1st paragraph already mentions quick recovery, this feels repetitive, or perhaps the 1st paragraph line premature
  • In the Norwegian capital of Christiania, she was shown the city's art galleries and local sights. She then traveled to Nes, where she spent five weeks hiking and enjoying the natural environment. She ended up being disappointed with Norway's "chilly" climate and people, and decided instead to visit Glasgow.[217] On August 18, she gave a public speech on anarchism at a meeting of the Norwegian Labour Party.[218] --> shorten significantly, we don't need a blow by blow account
  • where she was again stayed --> where she again stayed
  • She then departed for Scotland and, on August 24, arrived in Glasgow, where she was again stayed with the Duffs and repeated her lecture of "Crime and Punishment".[219] On September 12, she again left Scotland and departed for London. She stayed with Harry Kelly at his house in Anerley, where she met the German anarchist Rudolf Rocker, a fellow Yiddish-speaking gentile.[220] On September 17, she repeated her lecture on "Crime and Punishment" at the South Place Institute.[221] --> shorten significantly
  • its editor Alexander Berkman --> this paragraph can also easily be shortened, just give the key facts, fewer quotes

Phew. Taking a break. More later. Edwininlondon (talk) 15:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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