There are many places on the internet where it is appropriate to protest against the stupid, totalitarian Castro regime, and I encourage you to do so. Wikipedia, though, is not one of those places. Gazpacho 00:45, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Don't worry, I've changed my vote to "keep". Anyway, read from a travel magazine that Cuba is a unique country culturally. I hope I can visit it someday as a tourist. No offence to your opposition to Castro :) --*drew 04:21, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It is inappropriate for you to use Wikipedia as a basis for political advancement. It's an encyclopedia, not a debate house. Your user page makes clear your political ends. Please try to find more constructive ways to contribute, ideally on another topic where you're not so personally involved/biased. --Improv 19:55, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Hola Silent Voice:
How are you? Im AntonioMartin. I have an idea to start a wikiproject about Cuba, to write articles where we enhance your beautiful country's history and peoples. I myself have written many articles related to Cuba (Kid Gavilan, Ana Maria Polo, Cachita, Emilio Estefan, for example). We would need a list of articles related to Cuba to begin writing about. A Puerto Rican, Im already a member of wikiproject:Argentina and wikiproject:Mexican-American and Im going to push towards making other wikiprojects related to Hispanics, such as one for Uruguay and one for Puerto Rico, in the near future...what do you think? Let me know if you want to join in wikiproject:Cuba.
Dear Silent: Hi. I wanted to ask you about a possible Hispanic wikipedians association here on the English wikipedia. The purpose would be to trade assignments with members of other Hispanic countries, so that they would write about a topic pertaining to our country while we write about a topic pertaining to theirs. Like a trade. We would benefit a lot by learning about our history as a whole and having other Latinos learn about our own countries at the same time.
That way also, we would promote unity between our paises hermanos. We could become an example to Hispanics around the world. Unfortunately, some Hispanics do believe we are not brothers, and we can begin with our example to prove them wrong.
What do you think, would you be interested in joining such an association?
(Apologies for putting it in the wrong place first time round)
Dear Silent Voice - we prefer the more technical term Castrophilia, though I have heard that those who believe themselves on more intimate terms refer to themselves as Fidelphiliacs, though only in the presence of their own kind. They practice collective masturbation in front of images of the man's revolutionary boots - the blindness is an effect, not a cause of their inclinations. The rest of us keep one eye open and prefer to fuck with the brainy ones like you who's perceptions differ from our own. If Castro is to be compared with Stain and Hitler, on what level of hell do you place the various US politicians responsible for the deaths of, among others, so many Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians, Nicaraguans and Iraqis in the years covered by the Cuban Revolution. If death and displacement are your measure, they and their local cronies make Castro look like an amateur.
As I have said to you elsewhere, we are not here in Wikipedia to judge Castro, only to describe the various ways he is seen. Your way is represented in the Wiki entry as are other more sympathetic views. Only history will judge the clarity of our perceptions. By slagging off other editors the way you are you only show yourself to be blind to the limits of the Wikipedia project and to the realities of global politics. MichaelW07:14, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You know SilentVoice, just because I disagree with adding 'Dictator' to Fidel Castro, doesn't make me a Castro lover or a Communist or brainless. You could have called for a Rfc on your proposal to add 'Dictator' to the page, then respect the consensus of 'support' or 'oppose'. PS- I'm not sure what Wikipedia's policies are on User pages, but I'm sure your discription of allFidel Castro editors as Castro lovers, commies, etc, won't be well appreciated. GoodDay18:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Re:"my point is that a simple dialog like you and I are having here at wikipedia would have landed me in prison if I was back in Cuba."
I think it depends in what company you had the discussion. I listened to plenty of people bemoaning the shortcomings of their system.
Re: "So much for the US being belligerent towards Cuba and the fact is that the Cuban revolution is still there! Do you think we (US) does not have the military power to obliterate and make dust out of Castro and his followers?"
I'm sure you do, but you'd kill an awful lot of patriotic Cubans just to get to their evil masters. Can't you understand that it is that potential which keeps Cuban society locked into a defensive militarised position, incapable of separating honest critics from enemy sympathisers. MichaelW20:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Dear SV,
Re "Michael every foreigner in Cuba is watched very carefully I am betting they had handlers for you to follow you on every place you go".
I'm sorry but I think this is an example of the exaggeration which gives the anti-revolutionary Cubans a poor reputation. Too many of us foreigners have spent time working with different Cuban social groups in too many different scenarios. I could get together with all the people I know like that and we could put together all our negative observations about Cuba and they would not add up to the paranoid state that you describe. Not saying it doesn't happen but not to the level that you, and people like you, claim.
Those negativities we listed would be vastly overshadowed by the positive constructions at every level of Cuban society (I don't know about the very top but I associated with workers on a wide range of levels in a couple of ministries and party members of different levels and time of membership.) Yes I came across time servers, corrupt bureaucrats and those seduced by the dollar, but they were outnumbered by the committed and honest who were constantly working to improve the lot of their fellows. Yes I understand the way the paternalist hierarchy and its weaknesses are mirrored in lesser ways throughout Cuban society, but autocracy and paternalism do not add up to totalitarian dictatorship, around which definition you started this thread. The (non)events of the last year have shown the hollowness of that definition. Castro relinquishes his throne, and little changes. The reaction of the Cuban population was not one which suggested the fear ridden suppressed population which the Cuban -American politicos love to describe. The reality is more likely that Cuba has been run by a collective leadership for many years, with Castro as the focus and mouthpiece. (I often wonder whether this has not been a deliberate policy - to let it appear that the old man is THE leader attracting all the attention and hate, leaving the real collective to get on running the country in relative peace and quiet.)
Re your secret police following me: Last time I went to Cuba, I spent two weeks whizzing round Havana city province on a borrowed bicycle, visiting people I had worked with before and others they suggested I talk to. In a country with sophisticated surveillance technology it would have been difficult to track me, let alone in Cuba.
Re the shooting down of the plane
"If my speculation is correct then it actually means that the shutting down of the plane was a maneuver by the Cuban government to sabotage the negotiations going on."
I was in Havana that day, visiting a friend in Alamar, when the MIGs flew overhead heading out to sea. My friend commented what a rare sight that was since 1990. The word that week had been that the Miamians were planning something that day. The word was also that the regular air incursions over Cuba (buzzing coastal resorts, dropping leaflets) were not going to be endlessly tolerated, and there was likely to be a confrontation if Los Hermanos pushed it. You may be right or it may have been the result of more immediate macho decision making at a lower level.
Anyway thank you for the discussion, we are never going to agree on anything beyond the beauty and wonder which is Cuba, but civil communication has its own value. I'd love to visit again but doubt I will be able again to afford the airfare.
Please do not misuse the article talk page for longwinded comments unrelated to improving the entry, it is not permitted. Thanks in advance. El_C12:02, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop. If you continue to use talk pages for inappropriate discussion, as described here, you may be blocked. El_C 12:29, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
