Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Avala

This page has been certified as of 19:48, 20 May 2004 (UTC).

• (Avala | talk | contributions)

Statement of the dispute

This is a summary written by users who dispute this user's conduct.

• Description:

Avala has been repeatedly editing Milan Kucan and Janez Drnovsek to include allegations that the leaders were involved in war crimes. Other users have pointed out that these allegations are minor, that they are not reported on widely, and that they seem to be a non-issue. Avala refuses to let it go, and engages in a continual revert war, at times reverting articles more than 4 times a day (c.f. [1]). Avala regularly adopts a shrill tone of voice with those who disagree, at times accusing them of being communists, fascists, etc. These articles have been posted on RfC previously, and to date no one other than Avala has supported the additions. Avala has also attempted to bring this matter to the Arbitration committee, where it appears that it will be rejected. Avala proceded to remove all mentions of war crimes from Slobodan Milosevic in retalliation for the deletion of the content from the other articles.

Beyond that, Avala has been involved in edit wars regarding various boxes related to country pages, including Template:SFRY, Template:Serbia and Montenegro, Template:NAM, and Template:EU countries. When Template:NAM was listed on VfD, for instance, Avala proceeded to delete uses of Template:EU countries citing the precedent of NAM, making comments to the effect that while he or she disagreed with deleting the box, there was clear consensus. In a similar vein, while discussion was still actively going on about the appropriateness of Template:SFRY, Avala listed the box on VfD.

Finally, Avala is prone to misuse of Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress, regularly listing people on there over article content disputes instead of requesting mediation or listing on RfC.

• Evidence of disputed behavior (provide diffs and links):

  Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress - listings for GeneralPatton. Also see archives, such as [2] for entries on other users

  [MediaWiki:Serbia and Montenegro]], Template:SFRY, User_Talk:Avala, Talk:Janez Drnovsek all contain personal attacks on the part of Avala

  [3] - extreme reverting, including in excess of three a day, as well as personal attacks in edit comments

  [4] Deletion of substantial content from Slobodan Milosevic in retalliation for deletions from Janez Drnovsek and Milan Kucan.

  [5] Deleting content from EU box, again in retalliation for comments about Template:NAM

• Applicable policies:

1. Wikipedia:No personal attacks
2. Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot
3. Wikipedia:How to revert a page to an earlier version
4. Wikipedia:Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point

• Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute (provide diffs and links):

1. Talk:Janez Drnovsek
2. User_Talk:Avala
3. MediaWiki talk:SFRY
4. MediaWiki_talk:EU_countries#Too_big_for_modem_users?

• Users certifying the basis for this dispute (sign with ~~~~):

1. Snowspinner Snowspinner 19:02, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
2. Romanm 19:48, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
3. GeneralPatton 22:10, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

• Other users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):

1. Zoney 20:07, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

Response

This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete.

To start from the beginning.

Milan Kucan and Janez Drnovsek were sued for command responsibilty of shooting that 40 people. First Romanm said I maid it all up. Then I gave newspaper scan after which he said they made it up. After I provided evidence on Slovene language he admitted but said that this is not important. I don`t see how is it not important to be sued in 4 courts(2 international) especially when the person is the president. As a sign of protest I deleted info in Slobodan Milosevic article so you can see what is it like when other stubber users delete some important information. I tryed to be cooperative, I rewrote everything in NPOV style but you deleted it again. I called you a communist then. I think it is much better to call people communist then what GeneralPatton called me.

When we talk about Template:SFRY I will just say that we reached the consensus that this box should be placed in History section of ex-Yugoslavian states and that new boxes that have current info should be placed on main page.

I made Template:Serbia and Montenegro on SFRY box base. Snowsppiner kept saying that new S&M box is too small but it has all the information. There are 2 states and 2 APs in Serbia and Montenegro. We can`t add anything more.

About using Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress I will say this:

• I reported user GeneralPatton for the obvious reason. He called my edits in List of Croatians-radical nationalist, choban(shepherd), pickica(small cunt-i am just translating), then he said serem ti sliku kralja petra(I shit on your king peters picture). And what was I reverting in that article? That Ante Pavelic is not a politician but military Ustasha leader and that Mario Andretti is not Croatian just because he was born in Italian teritory which is in Croatia today. He also said that Norac will always be a hero even though Norac was indicted in the Hague. He uses ZDS which stands for Za Dom Spremni which is what Ustashas were saying in WWII. Ustashas were Croatian puppet state leaders and their army.

Snowspinner also reverted Adolf Hitler article when I inserted picture of Ante Pavelic shaking hands with him. Reputedly because picture is not of best quality. He/She said that term puppet state is not NPOV. Even though she lives in Chicago she was acting that she doesn`t know for term puppet state.

When I added Macedonian CoA Romanm was trying to prove that I added copyrighted material even though he knew that CoA cannot be copyrighted because it is public. Of course picture was not deleted. He was making fun of things I wrote in Janez Drnovsek article. He was even mentioning Bozo the Clown.

So if one of your fellow users GeneralPatton is inserting information just becuase he saw that some people talk about that in forum or when people try to revert his vandalism he calles them-cunt, shepherd(cowardly on foreign language so other users cannot understand) and everything else I said, then I think you do not have anything to backup your accusations.

If I forgot to write something it is written in mentioned articles and users involved talk pages.

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):

1. Avala 13:44, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
2. I'm not in the position to confirm any of the particular points stated by Avala above, but this whole page, along with the arbitration request, seems to be a severe overreaction emblematic of the Wikipedia's increasing legalism. At the root of this problem, he has a non-Western take on history and politics, to which some users object. On top of this, it is extremely difficult for him to respond, given that English is obviously not his first language. This matter is best addressed on the individual talk pages of the article's he's working on, not here. 172 20:46, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Outside view

This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute.

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):

Defense

On Avala's behalf, I would like to note that I have been obscenely harrassed by both Snowspinner and GeneralPatton -- I am inclined to believe that it is they who should be banned, not Avala. Lirath Q. Pynnor

Discussion

All signed comments and talk not related to a vote or endorsement, should be directed to this page's discussion page.